shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 16, 2016 21:30:21 GMT 10
Cheap-as food kit. Part 1 - Breakfast/no cookI put this kit together to function for various different roles. - food cache - friend/relative hand out - backup food - possible charity/natural disaster kit The kit has to have - no need to cook - no smoke/no need for fuel/no smell - very basic survival gear - blade/cup [used tin]/bucket for water/matches for fire/toothbrush - dental hygiene/soap hygiene. - cheap as possible - stores for at least 10 years Here's the printout I stuck on the side and a copy inside. You can see a list of the items included. The total cost was about $34 including the bucket, $24 of that was the food. The oat size is 750g, not 900g. I also forgot to list 'soap'. As you can see I put a candle in there and lit it. The candle will burn until there's not enough oxygen for combustion. So whilst still lit, I place the lid on top that has an o-ring on it that seals the air so we end up with mostly CO2 in the bucket. And I made 6 buckets, for a total of about 120 days.
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paranoia
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Post by paranoia on Oct 16, 2016 22:26:05 GMT 10
Nice kits, I like the scalability. Candle is a nice idea. Have you thought to use hand warmers? Would give an extra protection if the o-ring ever leaked a bit. Does push the costs up a little, I think I paid $1 each at coles last time.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Oct 16, 2016 22:49:06 GMT 10
I'm not too fussed though that's a good idea for oxygen tabs I hadn't thought of. I have a bunch of them that are still sealed, waiting for a big batch of things I probably won't ever do, as Gasman says, 'its on the list'. Of course if the seal leaked the Oxygen absorbers [iron filings btw] will be used up fairly quicky anyhow.
My experience with rolled oats is having some I didn't look after, had lying around at the back of the cupboard and wifey munching on them. I ask her, what happened to the other bag and she says, oh I've been eating them in porridge. They were about 5 years old and tastes and looked the same. That and Austemp reminding me about them just when I was exploring different options for the criteria I mentioned above and it dawned on me that they'd be great. The research seemed to suggest that they last a very long time, so here I am. The goal is to keep adding bit by bit, probably one bucket at a time now, I emptied the nearby supermarkets ha ha.
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Post by perthprepper on Oct 16, 2016 22:53:39 GMT 10
I'm not too fussed though that's a good idea for oxygen tabs I hadn't thought of. I have a bunch of them that are still sealed, waiting for a big batch of things I probably won't ever do, as Gasman says, 'its on the list'. Of course if the seal leaked the Oxygen absorbers [iron filings btw] will be used up fairly quicky anyhow. My experience with rolled oats is having some I didn't look after, had lying around at the back of the cupboard and wifey munching on them. I ask her, what happened to the other bag and she says, oh I've been eating them in porridge. They were about 5 years old and tastes and looked the same. That and Austemp reminding me about them just when I was exploring different options for the criteria I mentioned above and it dawned on me that they'd be great. The research seemed to suggest that they last a very long time, so here I am. The goal is to keep adding bit by bit, probably one bucket at a time now, I emptied the nearby supermarkets ha ha. No issues with weevils? We tend to get an outbreak in the pantry each year, and I have perhaps been wrongly assuming the weevil eggs come in the packs of oats and then hatch and eventually become moths. Maybe they've been getting in externally and sealing them in like this would keep them weevil free. I vaguely remember someone else here saying they use dried chilli to keep moths/ weevils out too. Starting to look over some of these threads again as I think I need to build up my carb stocks. Trying to weigh up the merits of rice vs couscous vs quick oats.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Oct 17, 2016 2:15:08 GMT 10
I would imagine if there's little to no oxygen [sealed in mostly co2] then insect breathing would help convert any left over oxygen to co2 My food thoughts rice - white, great, cheap, have to cook it, aka needs wood/fuel/solar+microwave [did a post on that] couscous - not sure, though it's just a pasta, and I've got spaghetti which seems to last forever, again needs cooking, see above. quick oats - not sure if the processing is the same, I do know rolled oats are steamed, they're probably the same and put though a cutter. I use rolled oats as they have a known, yet mostly anecdotal, reputation. I like em all.
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Post by Joey on Oct 17, 2016 6:55:09 GMT 10
Any suitable alternatives to condensed milk if we don't like it or don't drink milk? just do a sloppy porridge with water?
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Oct 17, 2016 9:55:51 GMT 10
Any suitable alternatives to condensed milk if we don't like it or don't drink milk? just do a sloppy porridge with water? Throw in some honey and cinnamon Joey it will make the porridge a bit creamier!
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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 17, 2016 13:27:03 GMT 10
Any suitable alternatives to condensed milk if we don't like it or don't drink milk? just do a sloppy porridge with water? Add a tablespoon of brown sugar and/or maple syrup - both of which store forever. Shinester - where do you buy your buckets?
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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 17, 2016 13:43:33 GMT 10
I vaguely remember someone else here saying they use dried chilli to keep moths/ weevils out too. Starting to look over some of these threads again as I think I need to build up my carb stocks. Trying to weigh up the merits of rice vs couscous vs quick oats. I toss a couple dried bay leaves in each of my buckets to discourage insects - picked this up on a couple different prepper sites. Took it a step further and scattered bay leaves on each shelf of my pantry as well. I personally stock rice, couscous and quick oats. I started stocking couscous because you can add it to boiling water, stir, cover and remove it from the heat - saving a significant amount of fuel. But now I tend to cook all pasta passively (turning the heat off after 1-2 minutes of boil and covering to cook the remainder), so that isn't as much of a concern. Still, couscous requires less water and also stores in a smaller space (1kg of couscous takes up less space in a bucket than 1kg of ziti), so there are other benefits to consider. Dried Pasta Cooking Chart Cooking Time (minutes) Acini de pepe 5 to 6 Penne 9 to 13 Capellini 5 to 6 Radiatore 9 to 11 Egg noodles, regular 8 to 10 Rigatoni 12 to 15 Egg noodles, extra wide 10 to 12 Rosamarina (orzo) 8 to 10 Elbow macaroni 8 to 10 Rotelle 10 to 12 Farfalle 13 to 15 Rotini 8 to 10 Fettuccine 11 to 13 Shells, jumbo 12 to 15 Fusilli 11 to 13 Shells, medium and small 9 to 11 Japanese curly noodles 4 to 5 Soba noodles 6 to 7 Lasagna noodles 12 to 15 Spaghetti 8 to 10 Linguine 9 to 13 Vermicelli 5 to 7 Mafalda 8 to 10 Wagon wheel 10 to 12 Manicotti 10 to 12 Ziti 14 to 15 Mostaccioli 12 to 14
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Post by perthprepper on Oct 17, 2016 14:30:44 GMT 10
I toss a couple dried bay leaves in each of my buckets to discourage insects - picked this up on a couple different prepper sites. Took it a step further and scattered bay leaves on each shelf of my pantry as well. Cool tip - thanks! My thinking is a few boxes of couscous (say 5-10) stored in a good quality plastic container. Then throw a few bay leaves or chilli flakes in. Put the lid on hard and rotate stock by the box. Yeah, I lean toward couscous for those reasons. Plus I generally use it as part of my work lunches (that quick cook and low water intensity is useful in a small kitchenette during a short break) so that helps with my stock rotation. My kids like porridge for brekky so I might do the same with rolled oats / quick oats.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 17, 2016 17:46:08 GMT 10
Well you don't 'need' the condensed milk, the rolled oats are a good staple on their own, though their amino acid balance isn't fantastic. Try out your own combinations with: nutritiondata.self.com/mynd/mytracking It's a very useful tool. Make sure you chose long lasting foods, I've found that I rotate [kinda] tinned foods in the cupboard, I forget about everything stored in a bucket so now I just make sure it lasts. Having said that, the condensed milk was chosen for it's very high energy [its half sugar lol], it's protein [it has the missing amino acids that oats dont], it's fat, it's probably long lasting [tinned and high sugar], it's price and it goes with rolled oats. The previous iteration and in fact one of my previous buckets has ghee instead of condensed milk. I looked for alternatives because my source of cheap ghee disappeared [though I'd still chose condensed milk]. Ghee seems to last a very long time if tinned, according to the best info I can get [anecdotal]
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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 17, 2016 17:55:52 GMT 10
The previous iteration and in fact one of my previous buckets has ghee instead of condensed milk. I looked for alternatives because my source of cheap ghee disappeared [though I'd still chose condensed milk]. Ghee seems to last a very long time if tinned, according to the best info I can get [anecdotal] Perhaps a can of red feather butter in each bucket as an alternative to Ghee? The great part about butter is that once you open a can it can remain at room temperature for several days (up to a week) before you have to worry about it going rancid. I'll repeat my other question from before as well - where do you get your buckets for $10?
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Oct 17, 2016 18:38:34 GMT 10
Well you don't 'need' the condensed milk, the rolled oats are a good staple on their own, though their amino acid balance isn't fantastic. Try out your own combinations with: nutritiondata.self.com/mynd/mytracking It's a very useful tool. Make sure you chose long lasting foods, I've found that I rotate [kinda] tinned foods in the cupboard, I forget about everything stored in a bucket so now I just make sure it lasts. Having said that, the condensed milk was chosen for it's very high energy [its half sugar lol], it's protein [it has the missing amino acids that oats dont], it's fat, it's probably long lasting [tinned and high sugar], it's price and it goes with rolled oats. The previous iteration and in fact one of my previous buckets has ghee instead of condensed milk. I looked for alternatives because my source of cheap ghee disappeared [though I'd still chose condensed milk]. Ghee seems to last a very long time if tinned, according to the best info I can get [anecdotal] Yeah I am storing ghee and coconut oil!
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 17, 2016 19:54:27 GMT 10
Oil/fats are hard to store. It's a question I've put a bit of work into and the main answers seem to be tinned and changed. Coconut oil is fairly long lasting though also expensive. -- Missed your question the first time, I saw them on ebay, used food grade with a seal and they were $6 a couple of years ago The extra $4 was the bits and pieces, toothbrush, soap, etc that I got from a cheapo supply place. Bunnings sell similar suitable wide brim water drums new for $21. Obviously good for water storage. Not sure on the butter, haven't seen very much info on it, though I'm hopeful. Ghee is clarified butter, the fat is changes slightly and ran into lots of anecdotal info supporting it's ability to last. Condensed milk though have seen some anecdotal on it and it's very high sugar levels [56%] make it like jam, aka not much will live in it at those concentrations. The only issue with butter in a tin is it going rancid and if it does, you'll know! Looking at videos of people eating tinned foods from 60 years ago leaves me with great confidence about tinned food. The ones that I saw definitely didn't work out were tins that rusted/leaked or had lots of air in them such as one with biscuits that went rancid. The guy ate them anyhow, even though he couldn't stand the smell, which is the thing really, the food will taste bad and not kill you. It's all a bit of educated guesses as quality empirical data doesn't exist unfortunately, only 'recommendations' of a couple of years and best before dates and yet the evidence is quite contrary to that. My approach is to slowly add more with my best knowledge over the years. The plans are to add another 12 of those tubs. I already have stacks of food realistically, I won't say the exact amount though more than a year I've got tubs from about 6 years ago that I haven't inspected. There's a few reasons to add some more, mostly to do with being able to support more people and secondly to cover issues with stored food that I hadn't expected. There's also variety and circumstance to consider. If possible I would be cooking with heat, making up pastas, soups and living pretty well as I have lots of food that's 'normal' to eat. Over the years I now recognize that it might not be possible in all situations. Cans are also a great option and I have both. Trouble with cans is that they're also about 10 times the price/day. I also understand budgeting for something I may never use is wise to do as inexpensively as possible. I keep the cans in the cupboards and I keep the rest of the stuff in tubs and don't bother trying to rotate it. My stores are heavy on rice, a bit of pasta and now rolled oats. I also had some wheat that the mice found, so I highly encourage to store your food in rodent safe containers
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Post by ziggysdad on Oct 17, 2016 20:19:47 GMT 10
I've got 6 buckets that I don't plan to rotate - set and forget. These are mainly rice, pasta, dried beans and cornmeal.
I've had good luck buying food grade buckets from my local Greek import store, but it takes several scrub/sun rotations before the odor of feta cheese is gone for good.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 17, 2016 22:39:44 GMT 10
Yeah, I think it's a good plan for long term food to just leave them and forget them. Perhaps check every 5 years or add a little every year to make sure you've got some edible food lol. I also imagine that at some point I'll probably compost old stores, $35-60 a year cheap fertilizer ha ha.
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Post by graynomad on Oct 18, 2016 8:22:12 GMT 10
The "set and forget" approach does conflict with the standard prepper advice of rotating etc, however it's what I do as well. Having convinced myself that most canned food lasts for a heck of a long time (years even decades) I figured why bother actively rotating, we do use our stored food and I suppose it kinda gets rotated depending on where we add and remove cans, but it's not a conscious process. As for the time canned food lasts, one first-hand anecdote I have is from my Dad, in WW2 they were fed corned beef that was canned for the soldiers in WW1. He said it was just fine
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 19, 2016 2:00:05 GMT 10
Looking at the nuclear bunker stuff, the advice is as we've done. They say to put it in there and leave it there, don't use it for your normal food. I've got both really and I think as you mature as preppers it's inevitable, who wants to be moving food around all of the time, I don't run a supermarket. Stores in the cupboard get used up and moved around, store in the bins get left there and since I add a little yearly, at this point I could throw out a whole years worth and still be fine
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remnantprep
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Post by remnantprep on Oct 19, 2016 6:59:52 GMT 10
I still have cans of food from 2012 that are still fine to eat as I got to the stash and leave point. We do eat from it occasionally and the only things I have had issues with are tinned apples, tomatos and chicken.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Oct 19, 2016 7:32:51 GMT 10
Tell me more about those issues Remmy?
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