token
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Post by token on Apr 10, 2017 22:27:06 GMT 10
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Apr 11, 2017 2:19:57 GMT 10
Insanely awesome, looking forward to it coming to market for many reasons.
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token
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Post by token on Apr 11, 2017 6:46:15 GMT 10
Insanely awesome, looking forward to it coming to market for many reasons. ikr, that is, IF!!! we dont end up in a long war with the Russia saga, the battery construction and market would take a hit from such. imo there will be a tonne of winners for this battery, and none moreso than the electric car. Range of 160kms will be X3, plus, 'faster charging' and that will be a huuge advance for marketability. On a smaller scale, the 'spy on me and hack me' smartphone lol wont need a charge everyday, rather every 3. I wonder though if that will make me busier as the mobile was meant to save me time when it came out, yet i find myself busier lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 10:25:24 GMT 10
The Holly Grail of the electrical industry is to find the perfect battery... this new one certainly sounds promising. Personally I'm looking seriously at flow batteries that store their energy chemically but in a separate tank, they offer the possibility for a stationary installation to store power up over summer for use in winter and the likes. But flow batteries at present need big tanks which does not make them suited to transportation. I'm noticing lead acid stationary batteries coming down in price, to the point you can now get 21 KWH for $2441 in a 48 volt bank.... the down side is the life cycle use is short. Happy prepping
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Apr 14, 2017 12:40:11 GMT 10
If only flow batteries had a cheap chemical that you could buy in bulk, store in a 1000L container, even if it's less efficient. They would be great for home solar, high capacity. Not sure about saving energy over summer, surely there's significant disadvantage to storing for 6 months? Besides, getting more generation is easy and cheap, and last seemingly forever [85% output after 30 years], making even second hand attractive. The problem is storing over night, a cheap flow battery might take space but it's adventurousness in that environment high. Ultimatly I don't really care what kind of battery it is, I just want a low-cost/kwh combined with a low-cost life cycle. The reality if you do the sums is that if you're willing to do it yourself and take the risk [can be significant when it comes to batteries] of second hand, you can reduce electricity prices. 'That' to my mind is the Holly grail, to compete with the standard electricity market and come out on top with a 3 year return cycle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 23:59:07 GMT 10
Shinester I can get 21KWH of new flooded lead acid batteries in a 48 volt configuration for $2441 on ebay ..... Trust me I run the sums every time I see a price change and so far the grid is cheaper than batteries even with the $1.15 per day service fee they slug me. I always export more power than I use so I have enough PV. My figures even on a very light depth of discharge daily would see off grid power costs of about 56cents per kilowatt hour.
Although if the energy retailer piss me off I might go off grid just to spite them and say bugger the cost, but so far I cannot complain. I will admit I do run a back up power system of 12volt into some old 750 Amp hour cells, that have their own PV..... So in any sort of black out I can still run lights and refrigeration without needed to run a generator, but it is too small to consider going off grid with and having anything resembling a normal life, since it will not run the induction cook top, AC or even the electric kettle.
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token
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Post by token on Apr 17, 2017 8:11:37 GMT 10
Shinester I can get 21KWH of new flooded lead acid batteries in a 48 volt configuration for $2441 on ebay ..... Trust me I run the sums every time I see a price change and so far the grid is cheaper than batteries even with the $1.15 per day service fee they slug me. I always export more power than I use so I have enough PV. My figures even on a very light depth of discharge daily would see off grid power costs of about 56cents per kilowatt hour. Although if the energy retailer piss me off I might go off grid just to spite them and say bugger the cost, but so far I cannot complain. I will admit I do run a back up power system of 12volt into some old 750 Amp hour cells, that have their own PV..... So in any sort of black out I can still run lights and refrigeration without needed to run a generator, but it is too small to consider going off grid with and having anything resembling a normal life, since it will not run the induction cook top, AC or even the electric kettle. Geek, correct me if im missing something here but if your system cannot run the kettle or the AC or cook top, then its not your battery bank you need to upsize your inverter. Ive got a hybrid system on one of my homes with 5kW inverter, 5000watts of solar and it does the oven and the kettle without pulling from the grid and without a battery bank, just DV with good sun. If i put a BB on it, i would have a lot of stored energy and tbh, save more money than pulling from the grid in the times when the sun is down. I think with our large family power usage, that the price you gave we would pay for that system of batteries in 2.5years. Considering they should be good for 5 years and you can get warranty for such out to that in general, and so long as you keep them at 80% (not including running AC) i would think you would save money?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 12:59:46 GMT 10
token Presently I feed enough power into the grid they pay me, so it is hard to see how disconnecting will save money.
You are right though present the 2.5 kw inverter is the limiting factor in my current 12v system. Previous to my current set up I lived for over ten years on a remote are power supply....it was also a 12v set up, with a trace 3kw inverter that could surge to 6 kw, I set it up when PV cost $10 per watt. Being 12 volts the high amperages made voltage drop a big loss, and back then it was my 5 kwh battery capacity that was over taxed, but it ran microwave, electric kettle, automatic washing machine and all.
There is always a catch, that price I gave for the ebay 48v 21KWH batteries is amazing value, but the depth of discharge life cycles chart just does not address my needs. cycling them down to 20% does see a life expectancy in excess of 3.5 years, but to get my 8kwh daily that would mean a 40kwh battery bank would be required doubling the price, so while I get paid to be on the grid I it is very hard to justify that kind of outlay.
Thanks for your input as it was good to rethink just where I'm at with all of this.
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shinester
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Post by shinester on Apr 17, 2017 23:27:26 GMT 10
Geek - yeah, I've got 20kwh of storage, cost me about $650 worth of exchange [cash and goods], second hand deep cycle, having the right friend helps. So if you do your sums with that figure, you'll see what I mean ha ha. Though I do see the point of 'new' as less risk of dying battery banks and going lower than 50% is at a high cost of life of batteries.
Another crazy angle on that is using a UPS as your 'inverter', the proper server ones for instance. I have a 4000W one that I got for about $100, obviously adding fuses, nice heavy cable and switches as applicable. For me it's only backup power.
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token
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Post by token on Apr 18, 2017 23:33:40 GMT 10
token Presently I feed enough power into the grid they pay me, so it is hard to see how disconnecting will save money. You are right though present the 2.5 kw inverter is the limiting factor in my current 12v system. Previous to my current set up I lived for over ten years on a remote are power supply....it was also a 12v set up, with a trace 3kw inverter that could surge to 6 kw, I set it up when PV cost $10 per watt. Being 12 volts the high amperages made voltage drop a big loss, and back then it was my 5 kwh battery capacity that was over taxed, but it ran microwave, electric kettle, automatic washing machine and all. There is always a catch, that price I gave for the ebay 48v 21KWH batteries is amazing value, but the depth of discharge life cycles chart just does not address my needs. cycling them down to 20% does see a life expectancy in excess of 3.5 years, but to get my 8kwh daily that would mean a 40kwh battery bank would be required doubling the price, so while I get paid to be on the grid I it is very hard to justify that kind of outlay. Thanks for your input as it was good to rethink just where I'm at with all of this. ah, ok, i didnt consider your on a good feed in rate, gotcha. Yes, in that case its a win for you....currently, but be warned, energy companies have been and are continuing to try and push legislation through which charges more for people with solar on their homes. I nearly spat out my drink in fury when i found that out. The fact that most did it to save money and now they are whinging that they are going broke and want the Gov to let them charge more money to those who have solar systems that feed back. Also, i just dont trust the system, so i will be working on my new block to get off the grid, even though i have a dedicated pole that i can go 3 phase on. Hopefully like this old fella as well as the lithiums, prices are going to come down on the higher end batteries. I note the tesla powerwall 2 is currently available as well in 7.5kw i think.
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Post by doomsdayprepper4570 on Apr 23, 2017 7:11:27 GMT 10
You have to shop around to get batteries at the "right" price. I managed to pick up 12 x 1350 amp hour surrettes for $2,000! New old stock that had neglected and were "locked up with sulfation". It took days of charging (destroying 3 x 40amp 12 volt chargers in process) and fiddling, but I now have a good workable 2700 amp hour at 24 volt battery bank. They have been performing very well and run all our refrigeration (4 units) with ease. This also boosts our return from the grid tie feedin tarriff we get as well. So ergon actually helps us put money aside for further batteries in the future. Even with shagged batteries they can be used as buffers to accept power from solar and feed to inverts to run refrigeration during the day. So even if your batteries are toast you can have cooling during daylight hours. Of course this does not work so well during cloudy days. If you have freezers you need to pack the outer edges with plastic bottles of frozen water to give longer lasting cooling. The tesla power walls are not good value and will want to become a lot cheaper in the future. At present fla still is the best bang for buck and safer for solar newbies. Let us hope we get better batteries for home power usage sooner than later as things seem to be heating up quickly overseas!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 11:16:25 GMT 10
Doomsdayprepper4570 That is a great buy on your batteries. I'm not sure I would want to keep putting power into stuffed batteries, but if it works for you that is what matters, our set ups are different I expect.
I not long ago picked up a new 370lt chest freezer on my favorite ebay. It has the new insulation and running the new R35 gas. It only uses 0.5 KWH per day at around 25 degrees C days and I run it at minus 25 degrees, so it is miles ahead of the normal old Kelvinators etc... Only $450. The new insulation in the walls of the freezer is great as it will hold over for up to 24 hours, if you keep the lid shut.
If you are going to use bottles as substitute eutectic plates, you can tweek the freezing point a little lower by adding some automotive anti freeze to the bottle contents. Just don't drink the contents.
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Post by doomsdayprepper4570 on May 3, 2017 20:55:47 GMT 10
You misunderstand what I am saying. My batteries are not stuffed! What I am saying is that even buggered batteries can be used as a buffer between your panels, and regs so as the inverter can still run refrigeration/freezers during the sunny daylight times! If the times comes that your batteries are toast then they will still be usable during daylight hours. Of course they will not have any storage capacity for use after dark. But at least you can still have frozen food! Safer to use salt in the water bottles if you have kids as the ethel glycol green is very attractive to little eyes. And there is no cure after ingestion! Better to be safe than very very sorry!
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