Beno
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Post by Beno on Jan 7, 2021 13:43:41 GMT 10
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 7, 2021 14:02:31 GMT 10
BLM and ANTIFA have not gone away either. One has to take into consideration that the Democratic party is not unified in any way, except they hate Trump. With Trump out of the way they will start infighting and become more violet to try and enforce their various agendas. The conservatives have also had enough and will also push back, and with very unpopular lockdowns and high unemployment - potential for escalation of violence is very high. Yesterday US employment figures came back with Private companies having shed 123k jobs in Dec 2020 against an expected 88k rise. www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/1/6/dark-days-of-labour-market-us-firms-shed-jobs-as-covid-surges Private payrolls decreased by 123,000 jobs last month, the first decline since April, after increasing 304,000 in November. Economists polled by Reuters news agency had forecast private payrolls would rise by 88,000 in December.
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australia
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Post by australia on Jan 7, 2021 14:34:47 GMT 10
Reports are coming out that BLM And antifa were the front line instigators that stormed the DC building , Not surprised at all .
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jan 7, 2021 15:33:52 GMT 10
Still totally zero 2nd amendment action, very disappointing!! The restraint in using firearms is strengthening their case to continue to own and use firearms. As soon as they go 2nd amendment they will be in a war.
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norseman
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Post by norseman on Jan 7, 2021 15:39:52 GMT 10
Still totally zero 2nd amendment action, very disappointing!! The restraint in using firearms is strengthening their case to continue to own and use firearms. As soon as they go 2nd amendment they will be in a war. It's only a piss take mate aimed at all the Yanks that get on these forums with the "You Aussies handed in your guns so you deserve everything you get!" style commentary!
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 7, 2021 16:23:59 GMT 10
Was she dead already? I don't see much effort to administer cpr. That’s what i think too. Shot in the neck. although is seems most US cops version of CPR is crash tackle, knee to the neck, head or back then handcuff. Actual CPR is optional. Taser also highly recommended. The recommended response for Antifa and BLM members who have sustained gsw to the neck is the immediate application of a tourniquet.
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Jan 7, 2021 16:44:45 GMT 10
The restraint in using firearms is strengthening their case to continue to own and use firearms. As soon as they go 2nd amendment they will be in a war. It's only a piss take mate aimed at all the Yanks that get on these forums with the "You Aussies handed in your guns so you deserve everything you get!" style commentary! Yeah mate I understand the piss take and totally agree with it. I just find it so ironic that no guns have been used after the years of bleating about their rights, now is the time for Trump diehards to stick to their convictions. Maybe they only have the guts to use them when they know no one will shoot back such as in a school. pussies.
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Post by milspec on Jan 7, 2021 17:53:23 GMT 10
My understanding at this time is that the lady who was shot was an AirForce veteran of 14years ... clearly she was a patriot standing for values which she believed her country considered important. So sad that the country she served no longer upholds the values she put her life on the line for. I cried for her and the state of the world today.
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Post by spinifex on Jan 8, 2021 6:52:37 GMT 10
When a mob storms a political building they have to expect to get shot at; be they ANTIFA or Trumpy-ites or anyone else. Engage in anarchistic activities and expect to take casualties.
As far as the video goes ... I'd like to see the coroners report on her death when it comes out. I wonder about the 'first aid' being applied ... or lack thereof. Seems possible it was a survivable wound but being laid on her back with her head propped up might have lead to a lot of blood ending up in her lungs and preventing breathing?
There doesn't even seem to be any proper attempt to determine where the actual wound is and to stem the flow. Just basic actions like locating and plugging the wound may have saved her life.
Were there not other military vets in that mob who should know stuff like that?
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jan 8, 2021 9:27:00 GMT 10
just imagine it was anywhere else in the world they would be called oppressed people struggling for their free democracy after rigged elections
The same that condemn them now would be showing outpouring of support during their struggles and sanctions would getting slapped around like hi5's after winning a game
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Post by Stealth on Jan 8, 2021 11:11:02 GMT 10
When a mob storms a political building they have to expect to get shot at; be they ANTIFA or Trumpy-ites or anyone else. Engage in anarchistic activities and expect to take casualties. As far as the video goes ... I'd like to see the coroners report on her death when it comes out. I wonder about the 'first aid' being applied ... or lack thereof. Seems possible it was a survivable wound but being laid on her back with her head propped up might have lead to a lot of blood ending up in her lungs and preventing breathing? There doesn't even seem to be any proper attempt to determine where the actual wound is and to stem the flow. Just basic actions like locating and plugging the wound may have saved her life. Were there not other military vets in that mob who should know stuff like that? We never know how we'll respond to a high stress situation until we're in it and the 'I would have...' crowd are always very loud about their imagined scenarios without knowing how they would ACTUALLY respond (not saying that you're one of them!). In my experience, the shut down and avoidance response is far more common than the leap to action response. I've had shutdown responses, and leap-to responses. I've never been able to accurately predict which one it would be and training and experience doesn't necessarily dictate which one takes the lead. It's important to acknowledge that both responses are natural and reasonable, even in the highly trained. You literally have to fight your lizard brain that's trying to protect your life and do the exact opposite of what it wants by putting yourself in a potentially risky situation. Your lizard brain doesn't understand that the shooter is now unarmed and controlled. It just knows 'someone near me probably just died/is dying, and the next someone could be me!'. The response of propping her somewhere relatively safe and then going to see if the danger is gone is pretty natural, even if it sadly contributed to that lady's death. Adrenaline is a hell of a drug and can make people do things stranger than any coked-up methhead.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jan 8, 2021 11:20:29 GMT 10
One scenario in the TCCC course I did involved being blindfolded, taken to an unfamiliar part of the building, then blindfold removed, pushed through a door to find..... a bad guy knifing some guy he's got pinned to the floor. The victim was covered in 'blood' and squeaking like a pig. And yes, I have heard a pig being knifed. My immediate response was retreat and formulate a response. My brain was in hyperdrive, but it only took a few seconds to come up with a plan of action. Didn't look like much was happening in those videos.
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Post by Stealth on Jan 8, 2021 13:42:48 GMT 10
You can't really apply your experience in that particular situation to this one though. For a start, you KNEW what you were there for. You knew you were going into a simulation. You knew that you were supposed to respond in a certain way because you'd just received training in it. All of those things mean that your lizard brain didn't have to kick in. You just followed training. Which is great, because that's what training is for! But if you're just an average Joe and someone gets gunned down nearby, you're not necessarily going to have those luxuries to fall back on. And even then, as I've said. I personally have had several experiences where in hindsight I would have acted in an entirely different way had my lizard brain not kicked in. Each time it's actually served me for good. Whether it with a fight response (sprinting to a vehicle rather than staying put) or flight response (stepping out of the way just in time out of fear, not foresight) or even a freeze (hesitating out of panic), my lizard brain saved me. Now I'm not saying we shouldn't train for appropriate scenarios. That's what gets the fight response working a lot more smoothly, and my fight response has definitely served me far more because of it. But we all like to think what we would do. I like to say instead 'what I HOPE I would do is...' because I've been in the tornado seat too many times to assume I'll behave like Rambo. Sometimes shit gets too real too quick. After all, we all know how well he was doing mentally lmao.
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Post by spinifex on Jan 8, 2021 17:44:07 GMT 10
When a mob storms a political building they have to expect to get shot at; be they ANTIFA or Trumpy-ites or anyone else. Engage in anarchistic activities and expect to take casualties. As far as the video goes ... I'd like to see the coroners report on her death when it comes out. I wonder about the 'first aid' being applied ... or lack thereof. Seems possible it was a survivable wound but being laid on her back with her head propped up might have lead to a lot of blood ending up in her lungs and preventing breathing? There doesn't even seem to be any proper attempt to determine where the actual wound is and to stem the flow. Just basic actions like locating and plugging the wound may have saved her life. Were there not other military vets in that mob who should know stuff like that? We never know how we'll respond to a high stress situation until we're in it and the 'I would have...' crowd are always very loud about their imagined scenarios without knowing how they would ACTUALLY respond (not saying that you're one of them!). I staunched my first severely bleeding head wound (6 stitches later required) at age 8. (To be fair ... I also inflicted the wound!) Simple as find wound, pull off t-shirt, put on wound, apply pressure. Stop the red stuff flowing! And I've done much freakier first aid since that humble beginning, including treating someone who had their mouth/jaw smashed in with a length of metal pipe. And I'm not an ambo or anyone with training above 'normal' first aid. But I'm lucky ... I was raised to 'stay calm and take action' from a young age. Adrenalin or not ... the basics aren't rocket science for anyone with a skerik of common sense and a pinch of gumption. And those people in that mob should have expected to be faced with armed resistance and a need to deal with their own wounded. And yeah ... I agree ... adrenalin is crazy stuff. I know a family that, during a bushfire, caved to their lizard brain + Adrenalin and took flight when they should of stayed put. I regret to this day not patrolling one more house down my road: with just a bit of steadying, they'd have survived.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Jan 9, 2021 8:44:33 GMT 10
I've always maintained the stance if you want to play medic then go be a medic There are plenty of jobs and volunteer positions that will give you 1st hand experience dealing with stress and busted people I've maintained my 1st aid and remote area 1st for years I've had to deal with a few situations that were unpleasant and they do leave a mark but one thing i will not say is 'if i had been there i would of done XYZ " because well i wasn't there and i have no idea what i would of done Its a funny thing what happens in situations like that sometimes everyone reacts and sometimes people just mill around mindlessly because well that wasn't meant to happen so now what do we do
How the Ambos and other emergency services do it on a daily basis do show that we are not all built to be heroes and that's just the way it is
My own experiences have shown me how people react on different scales to situations and two things I've noticed is those that have training are more likely to react in a useful manner to the situation vs those that don't and those that do react and take control of the situation are the same types of people that will normally step up to the plate in high stress situations
Funny story though once when working on a crusher i smashed one of my fingers the guy with me was a 1st aider and well long story short i had to treat him for shock because the sight of my mangled finger was to much for him So here i was in a world of pain sorting this guy out before i could attend to myself
the last thing i will add to this is if you ever find yourself in a position where you have to make a choice of who you can help , who you can't help and who is beyond help take it easy on yourself and forgive yourself sure you will always replay it and think
'if only i had done this or help that person first "
but well you are not a superhero or god so you did the best you could and that's all anyone could ask for
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Post by Joey on Jan 9, 2021 9:38:10 GMT 10
There's a video out now that shows a breakdown of the shooting of Ashli and how it may have been staged.
The democrats and the news are now calling for a complete "cleansing of the movement" of trump supporters. Could get spicy really soon
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spatial
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Post by spatial on Jan 9, 2021 11:17:37 GMT 10
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doglover
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Post by doglover on Jan 9, 2021 13:38:02 GMT 10
My understanding at this time is that the lady who was shot was an AirForce veteran of 14years ... clearly she was a patriot standing for values which she believed her country considered important. So sad that the country she served no longer upholds the values she put her life on the line for. I cried for her and the state of the world today. I feel for her family. I don’t however feel for her in the least. She was involved in a mass crime, and I have no patience for violence, looting and rioting. She was a veteran, young and impassioned, all good things normally. But when she crossed the line and broke into a government building she assumed the risks for the outcome that she received. If anyone is to blame here it would be trump for all the lies he perpetuated and the rally cry to storm the building in the first place. 5 people dead, many facing felony charges now all over the ego from one self centered man. Sad.
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Post by Stealth on Jan 9, 2021 18:18:43 GMT 10
It's a damned shame, I agree. No one should lose their loved ones. I wonder how many hero-complex people are floating around in that crowd not because they want to make a difference but because the mob mentality was too addictive. Frickin' glad that my biggest concern is having a stocked pantry in case everything goes tits up again with the virus.
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Post by spinifex on Jan 9, 2021 19:18:13 GMT 10
I've always maintained the stance if you want to play medic then go be a medic There are plenty of jobs and volunteer positions that will give you 1st hand experience dealing with stress and busted people There's nothing playful about being a medic. There's nothing heroic about it either. It's an admirable duty. It seems we live in society abundant in snowflakes who are easily startled and confused and lack a proper sense of duty.
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