arkane
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Post by arkane on Mar 14, 2015 0:19:59 GMT 10
Then feminisms work is done on you! You are one of there success's congratulations
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Post by pheniox17 on Mar 14, 2015 17:05:27 GMT 10
Are those numbers for real? A 2000k range for the F35, f me I require a 2000k range from my Landcruiser. I know time flys but didn't we just get the Collins working, why new subs. Or did the Collins subs never work? It seems to me that with such a huge country and not many people we should have forces that are capable of independant fighting a LONG way from anywhere. And we should be building stuff, refining fuel, and growing food right here in Oz, not importing it. I suppose it's cheaper to import and none of us want to pay more, but the country shouldn't be hanging on a string that can be cut at any time. I guess if the country refuses to "prep" at least we can. Collins class subs are working and there is always 2 operating in the Indian ocean at any given time The f35 is a joke but USA politics won't let us purchase what we wanted (f22) To the original topic... Australia is very hard to invade... Well its actually quite easy as some have pointed out, getting that beach head is not much at all But been able to maintain supply lines, able to combat our climate... (Australian climate is quite lethal to technology, transport etc) and the wide spaces of nothingness... We would make Vietnam look like child's play (providing the "she'll be right additude changes to get out of my country dirt bag)
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Post by SA Hunter on Mar 17, 2015 23:38:49 GMT 10
On that, don't just worry about Indonesia and China - I would keep my eyes on India as well - sure they are a 'Commonwealth' nation, but they have a HUGE army, nukes, and they will need land and water soon.
But I agree with the sentiment, we need to keep our eyes open.
Remember WW2 - our govt was willing to give up Nth Qld to the Japanese, if they invaded, and create a front line near Brisbane. There are a lot of similarities with our nation and Russia in WW2 - we can afford to give up land, and stretch the enemies supply lines - but would we have the 'guerilla fighters' that the Russians did? and we have no where near the manpower they could draw on from their eastern provinces (Siberians etc).
The article does create a lot of healthy discussion, and some soul searching - I just hope our leaders aren't complacent enough to think that the US will save us.
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Post by pheniox17 on Mar 22, 2015 8:27:26 GMT 10
On that, don't not worry about Indonesia and China - I would keep my eyes on India as well - sure they are a 'Commonwealth' nation, but they have a HUGE army, nukes, and they will need land and water soon. But I agree with the sentiment, we need to keep our eyes open. Remember WW2 - our govt was willing to give up Nth Qld to the Japanese, if they invaded, and create a front line near Brisbane. There are a lot of similarities with our nation and Russia in WW2 - we can afford to give up land, and stretch the enemies supply lines - but would we have the 'guerilla fighters' that the Russians did? and we have no where near the manpower they could draw on from their eastern provinces (Siberians etc). The article does create a lot of healthy discussion, and some soul searching - I just hope our leaders aren't complacent enough to think that the US will save us. Finally... Someone has looked at a atlas Some stats about India India has just finished a air base in the Indian ocean (some island out there) India has a operational aircraft carrier (the old USS enterprise I believe) India has Russian, French, English, american, and EU air assets under their flag India has a sub fleet India has surpassed China as the worlds largest population As already said India is a nuclear power India is also a space power If it wasn't for the $$ (its a poorish country) it would be a superpower.. Think about that... If we were in the 1940s India today would be a superpower of the time... I'm not joking What we have going for us... India is a poverty stricken state, the gap between the poor and middle class is huge... India is also a pacifist type state (not quite but the local population is made up mostly of pacifists) Australia dose have a capable Navy and costal defenses but the "seawiz" system will render our front line defense useless.. So YES India is a real threat... And worth investing time watching (they have threatened Australia with war in the past over racism issues in Melbourne... "If the Australian government can't look after our citizens we will take matters to our own hands" This is physical invasion on our own land... But Australia could be brought into conflict in direct relation to our defence in Indonesia, or in India... (Both are the best IMHO countries to launch a invasion to Australia... But you need numbers... Lots of numbers...) South Africa (some may see as a possible) is so unstable as a state, and the continent is in so much unrest as a whole... You couldn't rely on it for the years needed to take oz... But also follow new Zealand defense assets... That is the only country you can garrente will come to our aid... The rest of our allies... I wouldn't hold my breath
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arkane
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Post by arkane on Mar 22, 2015 8:42:22 GMT 10
I do not see india as a problem unless of course we tried to make it a problem!
India cant project its power much while Pakistan is to the west and china to the north.
Indonesia has no real enemy threats to the north! it just hates the interlopers in the southeast What they hate about us! We are not Asian We are not muslim We are wealthy We have space We occupy there south eastern territory! and We have big and powerfull friends!
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Post by pheniox17 on Mar 22, 2015 8:52:10 GMT 10
And look what was done in Ukraine... Our powerful friends were also Ukraine's powerful friends
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arkane
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Post by arkane on Mar 22, 2015 9:47:55 GMT 10
And look what was done in Ukraine... Our powerful friends were also Ukraine's powerful friends totally irrelevant ! completely different situation!
do you know the difference between apples and oranges?
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Post by Fractus on Mar 22, 2015 10:01:24 GMT 10
Ukraine is a victim of both super powers and the truth of the politics behind it all will only be known well down the road, if at all. It is all little boys with little peckers, playing with toys they should not have. Politics of the world are so convoluted and evil.
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Post by pheniox17 on Mar 22, 2015 14:14:49 GMT 10
And look what was done in Ukraine... Our powerful friends were also Ukraine's powerful friends totally irrelevant ! completely different situation!
do you know the difference between apples and oranges?
Actually apples with apples The ANZUS treaty is similar to the Ukraine USA treaty over the ownership and use of nuclear weapons The treaty has something about you don't need a nuke deterrent the USA will come to your rescue... That treaty is not worth the paper its printed on... Same as the ANZUS treaty... Maybe you need to brush up on "our protection" that you have so much faith in and their policies... 2000 us Marines in Darwin... You really think that is anything out of a military force of over 500,000 personal... So apples and apples
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arkane
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Post by arkane on Mar 22, 2015 15:13:23 GMT 10
Apples and Oranges !
Indonesia is not a nuke power right!
We are safe from Indonesia so long as the USA is ABLE to IMMEDIATLY come to our aid!
If that changes we are in deep poo! as I am still short on ammo!
Our treaty with the USA is a good one where they must come to our aid but no time frame is specified! it might be a week, a month, a year or maybe three!
Relax enjoy the pool, banana chair and the drink ! it won't happen
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Post by pheniox17 on Mar 22, 2015 15:38:08 GMT 10
Hang on you quote me over Ukraine but now your going on about Indonesia??
Indonesia is miles behind Australia in military technology and training...
But since Indonesia is your beliaf.... What assets do they currently have?? And how do you propose they launch a invasion??
Oh FYI Australia trains Indonesian military... We know what they have... The capabilities of their forces and ohhh you don't train others at the same quality of our own...
And Indonesia invades oz. USA will give military aid under conditions... And that will be it...
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Morgo
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Post by Morgo on Mar 22, 2015 16:18:26 GMT 10
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Australia were invaded.
There are countries out there that may not be generally considered allies but still have a significant financial interest in a stable and productive Australia.
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Post by Fractus on Mar 22, 2015 17:43:14 GMT 10
China may invade us or not. But they won't like our resources being taken by another country, regardless of who. They may well intervene on their own behalf. Then leave a protection force behind for our benefit. Purely a magnanimous gesture. Like Russia invadeing oops I mean helping Hungary in the early days of the first Cold War.
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Post by thereth on Mar 22, 2015 18:55:40 GMT 10
China may invade us or not. But they won't like our resources being taken by another country, regardless of who. They may well intervene on their own behalf. Then leave a protection force behind for our benefit. Purely a magnanimous gesture. Like Russia invadeing oops I mean helping Hungary in the early days of the first Cold War. OR, if you want to go full tin foil hat, they orchestrate the initial invasion by a third party to give them a reason to introduce their "protection force"
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arkane
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Post by arkane on Mar 22, 2015 19:04:36 GMT 10
I do not see a .gov sanctioned military invasion of Australia!
I do see a Islamic jihad by most of the ten million unemployed Islamic youth who have nothing to lose but much to gain by jumping on a boat and coming south east! In the last decade Indonesia bought from china and Russia ten million AK47 type assault rifles and several billion yes billion rounds for them! yet the Indonesian military uses FNC's in 5.56nato
no point in this stockpiling unless you look south east ! I don't know when they will come but they have made big preps! All that is needed is a window of opportunity and a trigger! The window would be when the USA gets tied up with its own problems and the trigger might be a religious insult or some such!
again just my opinion and my strike rate is getting better!
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Post by Peter on Mar 22, 2015 20:24:42 GMT 10
...Then leave a protection force behind for our benefit. Purely a magnanimous gesture. Like Russia invadeing oops I mean helping Hungary in the early days of the first Cold War... Exactly. It's for "our" benefit.
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arkane
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Post by arkane on Mar 22, 2015 21:36:34 GMT 10
Think about it! put yourself in the shoes/sandels/bare feet of a young bloke in Indonesia. Your iman tells you there are wealthy people occupying southern irian jaya,
You have no job, you have no wife, you have no prospects, yet there are these rich infadels occupying part of your country, they disrespect your religion and generally don't give a damn about you! Your iman suggests you go over there and kill the infidel and take what is his, he says many are going you should get your share too! you could take a whole farm and get your family to settle there with thousands of others he even says he can supply you with a gun and ammo!
what have you to lose? the price of failure! death gets you seventy two virgins in heaven! winning gets you wealth and maybe land for family and enough to buy a wife!
win win!
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Post by graynomad on Mar 22, 2015 22:06:25 GMT 10
Yeah it would be no-brainer to many, and we aren't allowed to own an AK or similar to put up a decent fight.
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shinester
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China's white trash
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Post by shinester on Mar 24, 2015 8:18:16 GMT 10
Interesting. Aside from what's already mentioned:
In WW1 and WW2, Australia was full of country lads who shot rabbits for their first pair of pants [my father was one of them] and it was as normal to hunt as it was to go fishing. We were great and prolific shooters and outdoors-men, knowing the hardships and the land. Our aptitude. One of the reasons we were so respected was also our attitude, to 'give it a go' and our very nature of hard and aggressiveness. Whilst some of that exists still, it's a shadow of what it once was. We do have an excellent and well trained army, but when your army mates tell you how little they do live fire, how they shoot less than you do as a complete civy, it makes you want to cry.
There's a great alternative, learning from the Swiss, train almost everyone as a reservist. We can't defend all of our borders, and we don't need to, we only need to protect our assets.
In terms of who, China is the real threat, they would very probably want to protect industry assets such as coal/gas/iron-ore that they already have large ownership of in companies who dug holes in the ground. Malcome Fraser even wanted to forgo America for the Chinese. Unfortunately the Chinese only care about the Chinese.
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Post by Aussie_Scout on Apr 6, 2015 11:21:06 GMT 10
The " Military Invasion " of Australia scenario has been something I have given a lot of thought to over the years .
There is almost 800,000 Licenced firearm owners in Australia that own estimated 3 million firearms ... take out Airrifles / paintball guns etc that are listed as " firearms " and just think about the actual firearms , that is still alot of firearms ( Yes I am a Licenced firearm owner )
Are these firearms we civillians own " military style semi auto / auto rifles " ? ...unless you have a Cat C/D licence no , but they kill just the same regardless.
What do the majority of us that own firearms do ? , we reguarly hunt animals , lice on/off the land , apply bushcraft knowledge / skills etc etc while we hunt and also practice our accuracy / marksmanship at gun ranges around the country every other weekend .
During WW2 the government of Australia formed / supported / supplied / armed and even provided gurilla warfare training to Australian civillians to be used in defence of the Australian Mainland in the even of Japanese Invasion , this force eventually numbered almost 100,000 individuals , from all walks of life , especially those who reguarly already practiced marksmanship and weapons handling being private gun owners and members of rifle clubs etc .... they were Called the V.D.C ( Volunteer Defence Corps ) , anyone that is unfamiliar with this group and its history I urge you to do some reasearch on them as it is quite fascinating .
The VDC trained with the regular army , built weapon ranges for the military and were tasked with gurding key buildings and manning anti aircraft guns / early warning stations etc .
If an invasion were to happen , those 800,000 licenced civillian firearm owners who own between them an estimated 3 million firearms could share them around further arming potentionally hundreds of thousands more " guerilla fighters " .... through simple trial and error and attrition many will die yes , but lessons will be quickly learned and passed on ( hopefully ) and tactics changed .... and of course picking up dead enemy weapons and equipment and using it against them as every other guerilla force has done throughout history .
Will these " Red Dawn " guerilla's win the war and save Australia by themselves ? .... Of course not , not a chance in hell ... But they could provide quite a lot firearms and armed people that could be pointed in the right direction , which is something no military commander would say no to in the event of Invasion of Australia , and would be used for other purposes such as providing intel , surveilence , sabotage of enemy communications / roads / vehicles / equipment etc etc etc .
I could see the military utilising this resource ( hundreds of thousands /potentionally millions of armed civilians) by sending out small teams to train militia / guerilla units in basic tactics , communications , concealment , sabotage etc to support the regular ADF where possible , as the ADF will be doing the vast majority or the " Lions share " of the work , im sure any extra help would be appreciated when possible or feasable to do so.
Of course while nobody can ever say It would NEVER happen for sure 100% ....This is all of course just one possible scenario in the highly unlikely event of an Invasion ever occuring...now where did I leave my Red Dawn DVD ....Wolverines ! lol ...
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