malewithatail
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Location: Northern Rivers NSW
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Post by malewithatail on Jun 3, 2022 18:02:57 GMT 10
I have a spare Pelton 5P pelton wheel from our other farm, where we ran a 1 Kw, 240 v ac induction alternator for all our power needs from the water bore into a disused Coal Mine.
Ive researched using a water wheel with steam, and it seem feasible. The actual wheel is rated at 5.5 HP, at 3,600 rpm max. I have a spare 3 phase motor rated at about 1.5 kw that can be used as a induction alternator. The auxiliary battery charger in the main power system will work for charging the main battery's, and then I can route power to the other systems as needed.
The sticking point is a boiler of some kind.
Ive seen a design that uses a one way flap valve in the inlet line, to prevent high pressure water going back down the line, and on the top of the boiler, a couple of T's, one for a safety valve, the other for a pressure gauge and a copper pipe outlet to the turbine.
I know its saturated steam, so wont be as powerful as unsaturated or super-heated steam, but it should work. It will probably run for a time, stop until it fills up again, then run again. For battery charging that sort of interrupted or intermittent duty will be OK.
A used large LP gas bottle should work as a pressure vessel, and a stand to put it on can be made from bed iron. Plenty of wood available here, so when petrol or diesel is rationed and then restricted to emergency services, and we have a spell of bad weather like we just had, I can keep the juice flowing.
One disadvantage of a turbine is the noise, a whine that permeated the other farm and it took a few months for the whine to disappear from our hearing when we moved. Not really stealthy, but at that point, noise probably doesn't matter.
Such a device has some appeal over a producer gas generator as it is simpler, probably not as efficient, but its for emergency use and efficiency isn't an issue.
I'm a cowboy, but I ride a steel horse.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jun 3, 2022 18:33:48 GMT 10
Will cutting the wood to make the steam use as much or more power than generated by the steam?
Eg: will the petrol used to run the chainsaw to cut the wood make more power in a generator?
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malewithatail
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Location: Northern Rivers NSW
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Post by malewithatail on Jun 3, 2022 19:54:27 GMT 10
Will cutting the wood to make the steam use as much or more power than generated by the steam? Eg: will the petrol used to run the chainsaw to cut the wood make more power in a generator?
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Post by ausprep130 on Jun 3, 2022 21:21:46 GMT 10
Will cutting the wood to make the steam use as much or more power than generated by the steam? Eg: will the petrol used to run the chainsaw to cut the wood make more power in a generator? Petrol generators vary in size and fuel consumption but the few sizes I checked use about 500ml per hour at 1/4 load. So at full load that could be as little as 15-20mins run time. Now compared to a chainsaw. There's a variety of chainsaws on the market but I think they would all be similar in fuel consumption. The fuel tank on my 66cc Husqvarna is about 440ml. Lets round it up to 500ml to make calculations easier. I get between 250kg to 750kg of firewood per tank and sometimes more depending upon the timber (dry vs green, hard vs soft) and the length of the cut. For campfires it's cut long (800-900mm) but for a wood stove it's cut shorter (300mm) which means 2-3 times as many cuts and lesser quantity of wood from the tank. So for calculation purpose I'll use the lower amount of wood. I think 250kg of wood should be enough to keep the fire going for at least 3-5 hours maybe even double that depending upon whether the pressure vessel is upright or on its side. I assume the pressure vessel is the skinny 45kg bottle?? I think it may take about 30-45mins to reach a rolling boil so that would give at least 2hrs of electricity generation probably much longer. I can't comment on the power output of the steam or how long before the it boils dry but I'd hazard a guess it will be sufficient for purpose.
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malewithatail
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Location: Northern Rivers NSW
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Post by malewithatail on Jun 4, 2022 9:36:26 GMT 10
Will cutting the wood to make the steam use as much or more power than generated by the steam? Eg: will the petrol used to run the chainsaw to cut the wood make more power in a generator? Good comment:
As well as having petrol powered swing saw, I have a 32 inch, 3 phase electric saw bench that operates from the solar power system.I also have several 240 v electric chain saws, that once again can run from the solar system.I have given much thought to the loss of liquid fuels, and its effects on our survival.Such a steam powered generator is envisaged for emergency The s..t really Hits T F outcomes.
We do have plenty of fallen timber around here, and if I have to use a hand saw, then so be it. If the situation has got to that, then its all fallen apart and Australia and the world is in deep doggy do do.However, its still prepping for a contingency that may happen. No tag line as I'm using the tablet and not in the radio room tonight. (Lazying in front of the wood stove !).
I have seen similar figures for fuel consumption of petrol generators, and we have all 3 petroleum based fuels covered, petrol, LP gas and diesel. The 8.5 Honda uses a tank full, about 8 liters, in 2 1/2 hours, at full load. That generates over 20 Kwh of energy, so will run the 3 phase electric saw bench ,(3 HP, 4 Kw) for over 4 hours. In 4 hours I can cut an awful lot of wood. The 12 Kva water cooled silenced diesel uses a little less per hour as the Honda, but generates over 1/3 more electricity, so over all is more economical, and quiet !
Generating at DC, not 240 volts is even more efficient as there are no transformer and conversion losses. This is another project of the go, finding a small diesel engine and adding the 32 volt dc generator I have. (I can over excite the field and get 48 volts dc from it easily).
I have several petrol chainsaws as well, don't forget the oil requirements as well. I also have a couple of 240 v electric chainsaws, and whilst they would be painful in cutting down a large tree, they are ideal for docking and trimming. No noise, no cranky starting etc. At the mill, where I occasionally work, we have a couple of Sthil battery chainsaws, and the performance of them is stunning, once again, not for heavy work, but docking or cutting up a log that's jammed under the saw, whilst on your back, in a foot of saw dust, is where the battery chainsaws really shine.
I have run an energy meter on our 3 phase docking saw here at the farm, when running from the solar system, and it uses about 1 Kwh per cube or about a ton of timber. Thats a ute load for 1 kwh. We have a 12 kw solar array on the main power system, giving over 50 kwh per day, so the power usage in sunny weather is minimal. The wood gas or steam turbines are only for when the economy has collapsed and fuel is no longer available, or rationed, and we have a week or two of overcast weather. Emergency use only. And anyway, being prepared means having a few cubes of wood already cut and stored, both for stoves and energy generation.
The steam system will be a compromise, low pressure saturated steam, and also intermittent i operation, but like I said above, baby sitting a steam turbine to keep an eye on it and refill it every hour or two, will just have to be done.
I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.
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