dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 21, 2022 13:45:58 GMT 10
For the EV lovers here, NSW will introduce a tax of 2.5 cents per km travelled for all EV's from July 2027. Expect other States to follow suite. Hybrids will be charged 80% of the tax. gotta pay for roads somehow. ICE already paying a tax for it through fuel excise. if anything it affirms ev as legitimately the future of transportation. wonder how 2.5c/km compares to $2/litre and rising. I wonder if it will be variable.
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Post by ausprep130 on Jul 21, 2022 19:03:50 GMT 10
For the EV lovers here, NSW will introduce a tax of 2.5 cents per km travelled for all EV's from July 2027. Expect other States to follow suite. Hybrids will be charged 80% of the tax. Interesting. I would have thought that would be a federal government thing - to pay for road infrastructure like the fuel excise. On a side note, I'm tipping it won't be long before it is 10c per km.
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frostbite
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Post by frostbite on Jul 21, 2022 19:15:03 GMT 10
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Beno
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Post by Beno on Jul 21, 2022 20:00:30 GMT 10
Average new car uses about 8 litres per 100km. so 40 cent excise fuel tax times 8 litres is$3.20 tax per 100km. I’m tipping a minimum $2.50 per 100km tax foe EV by 2030 then only up from there.
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captain
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Post by captain on Jul 21, 2022 22:24:04 GMT 10
For the EV lovers here, NSW will introduce a tax of 2.5 cents per km travelled for all EV's from July 2027. Expect other States to follow suite. Hybrids will be charged 80% of the tax. The question that should be asked - Is how will they know how many kms you have done? I dare say the tracking technology is being built into the cars now - so on registration, you supply the vin, it is locked to the tracker in your car, they record your movements/travels and then send you an invoice each year or whenever. so besides your phone, the gov will also know where you are going or have been by tracking your car. Why aren’t we talking about that? I wonder if there will be a black market in “unlocking” or jail breaking an EV!!!!
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jul 21, 2022 22:50:39 GMT 10
For the EV lovers here, NSW will introduce a tax of 2.5 cents per km travelled for all EV's from July 2027. Expect other States to follow suite. Hybrids will be charged 80% of the tax. The question that should be asked - Is how will they know how many kms you have done? I dare say the tracking technology is being built into the cars now - so on registration, you supply the vin, it is locked to the tracker in your car, they record your movements/travels and then send you an invoice each year or whenever. so besides your phone, the gov will also know where you are going or have been by tracking your car. Why aren’t we talking about that? I wonder if there will be a black market in “unlocking” or jail breaking an EV!!!! A lot of new vehicles already do...mine has a sim card in it...sends everything back to the mother ship.
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 22, 2022 8:32:52 GMT 10
id say it would sit with state due to the cost being measure with vehicle registration. wouldnt be surprised if we still got taxed by federal government too.
I agree beno, I think the government will try and sink their tax claws in while there is some opposition to EV, and then when everyone is transitioned to it we are all the frogs sitting in the boiling pot. I wonder if the money paid by governments to fossil fuel companies willever be calculated in the tax equations. also including the externalities of pollution and health effects.
I know there was some talk that you were meant to send in a timestamped photo of your speedo to vicroads a while ago. surely that system wont last long.
thinking about big data captures is scary, but i dont think anything ever comes of it on an individual level. it doesnt stop shooters who openly declare their intentions on social media, it doesnt stop terrorism. its more the commercialisation that worries me. I dont want my car to give insights on my movements to businesses to target advertising to me. I hate that enough as it is.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 22, 2022 11:23:39 GMT 10
Easy to work out he km traveled now as everything is networked, no escaping anything, taxes etc. EV's, yesterday was in town doing some shopping and wham....the power went out. No issue for us as we had cash on hand for just such an eventuality, but most stores eftpos seemed to sill be up on battery backup. But...... You have your EV plugged in to charge whilst u shop. No power, and yes, the Petrol stations were all down as well, but we don't let our fuel reserve get so low that we can get back home the 100km or so if we cant get petrol when in town. Power Company Web site was not giving any updates as to the duration, only "being investigated". Was a bit of a wake up call to us that there will still be issues with EV's that don't necessarily exist with conventional vehicles. Main shopping centers were Ok as they had big diesels for power, and most small shops were still accepting cash. Lunch could have been an issue, with no electric to get hot food, but, not a game stopper like a flat EV battery. And I know EV's have a 500 km range, and its only 100 km to town, but we have 2 mountain ranges to go over in each direction, and the figures for range are for ideal conditions, not hard climbing. So at best the EV may have enough to get u back home, but add a car full of shopping, wet roads and having the lights on for safety and any battery margin is getting thin, even with regenerative braking etc. Perhaps hybrids offer some safety factor. And solar wouldn't have worked as the weather was very heavy overcast with drizzle. Thoughts please ? And I am an Electrical Engineer, so have an interest in EV's, but maybe the infrastructure just isn't quite there yet.
Just do it !
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tactile
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Post by tactile on Jul 22, 2022 12:03:50 GMT 10
I would of thought if you live in a country area and you are going to invest in an EV (and you are prepper minded) you would invest in the infrastructure to do your own charging...that's what I would do. Otherwise a plug in hybrid is defiantly the go...they are starting to get heaps better.
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 22, 2022 22:51:24 GMT 10
Easy to work out he km traveled now as everything is networked, no escaping anything, taxes etc. EV's, yesterday was in town doing some shopping and wham....the power went out. No issue for us as we had cash on hand for just such an eventuality, but most stores eftpos seemed to sill be up on battery backup. But...... You have your EV plugged in to charge whilst u shop. No power, and yes, the Petrol stations were all down as well, but we don't let our fuel reserve get so low that we can get back home the 100km or so if we cant get petrol when in town. Power Company Web site was not giving any updates as to the duration, only "being investigated". Was a bit of a wake up call to us that there will still be issues with EV's that don't necessarily exist with conventional vehicles. Main shopping centers were Ok as they had big diesels for power, and most small shops were still accepting cash. Lunch could have been an issue, with no electric to get hot food, but, not a game stopper like a flat EV battery. And I know EV's have a 500 km range, and its only 100 km to town, but we have 2 mountain ranges to go over in each direction, and the figures for range are for ideal conditions, not hard climbing. So at best the EV may have enough to get u back home, but add a car full of shopping, wet roads and having the lights on for safety and any battery margin is getting thin, even with regenerative braking etc. Perhaps hybrids offer some safety factor. And solar wouldn't have worked as the weather was very heavy overcast with drizzle. Thoughts please ? And I am an Electrical Engineer, so have an interest in EV's, but maybe the infrastructure just isn't quite there yet. Just do it ! so if you needed fuel in that situation you wouldve been stuck too... i dont quite get your scenario. I dont see how an EV would have been a problem there. once power was resupplied you could either refuel or recharge, but until power came back on, neither would work. i dont think EVs can do everything that the full range of ICE vehicles can do yet, but thats due to the limited number of options, and will change with time. The deciding factor will be fuel cost, and it seems like petrol and diesel are only going one way, while the cost of producing your own electricity is going the other way. Car manufacturers all know it and are transitioning everything to electric. there will be a tipping point where ICE vehicles are not worth running, and people will lose a lot of money on their asset, and may even have to pay for disposal. another way to look at it is that people are prepared to pay a premium for an electic vehicle now; what will happen when they are the same price or cheaper? and what economic effect will that have on petrol and diesel distribution and costs? i dont think the infrastructure is or will be an issue in deciding EV success, rather we will have no choice.
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Post by ausprep130 on Jul 23, 2022 10:12:28 GMT 10
Easy to work out he km traveled now as everything is networked, no escaping anything, taxes etc. EV's, yesterday was in town doing some shopping and wham....the power went out. No issue for us as we had cash on hand for just such an eventuality, but most stores eftpos seemed to sill be up on battery backup. But...... You have your EV plugged in to charge whilst u shop. No power, and yes, the Petrol stations were all down as well, but we don't let our fuel reserve get so low that we can get back home the 100km or so if we cant get petrol when in town. Power Company Web site was not giving any updates as to the duration, only "being investigated". Was a bit of a wake up call to us that there will still be issues with EV's that don't necessarily exist with conventional vehicles. Main shopping centers were Ok as they had big diesels for power, and most small shops were still accepting cash. Lunch could have been an issue, with no electric to get hot food, but, not a game stopper like a flat EV battery. And I know EV's have a 500 km range, and its only 100 km to town, but we have 2 mountain ranges to go over in each direction, and the figures for range are for ideal conditions, not hard climbing. So at best the EV may have enough to get u back home, but add a car full of shopping, wet roads and having the lights on for safety and any battery margin is getting thin, even with regenerative braking etc. Perhaps hybrids offer some safety factor. And solar wouldn't have worked as the weather was very heavy overcast with drizzle. Thoughts please ? And I am an Electrical Engineer, so have an interest in EV's, but maybe the infrastructure just isn't quite there yet. Just do it ! so if you needed fuel in that situation you wouldve been stuck too... i dont quite get your scenario. I dont see how an EV would have been a problem there. once power was resupplied you could either refuel or recharge, but until power came back on, neither would work. i dont think EVs can do everything that the full range of ICE vehicles can do yet, but thats due to the limited number of options, and will change with time. The deciding factor will be fuel cost, and it seems like petrol and diesel are only going one way, while the cost of producing your own electricity is going the other way. Car manufacturers all know it and are transitioning everything to electric. there will be a tipping point where ICE vehicles are not worth running, and people will lose a lot of money on their asset, and may even have to pay for disposal. another way to look at it is that people are prepared to pay a premium for an electic vehicle now; what will happen when they are the same price or cheaper? and what economic effect will that have on petrol and diesel distribution and costs? i dont think the infrastructure is or will be an issue in deciding EV success, rather we will have no choice. The point that I took from what MWT said was that EV owners plan their journeys to make efficient use of time because charging takes a lot longer than it does to fill up with fuel. And it's true that when the grid goes down you can't charge your EV and you can't pump fuel but when the grid is back on line you can pump fuel in a matter of minutes whereas with an EV you'd be waiting around a lot longer.
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Post by ausprep130 on Jul 23, 2022 10:13:26 GMT 10
I think it was Brad from Full Spectrum Survival who made a good point about EV cars - the more EV cars the higher the demand for electricity. The higher demand for electricity the higher the price of electricity. How long before they are on par with current fossil fuel prices?
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 23, 2022 13:39:55 GMT 10
I think it was Brad from Full Spectrum Survival who made a good point about EV cars - the more EV cars the higher the demand for electricity. The higher demand for electricity the higher the price of electricity. How long before they are on par with current fossil fuel prices? not quite the full economic picture though, and thats not how the supply and demand relationship works over time... as demand increases, supply will increase through market pressures. the comparison is to to an assumed stable ICE market, which it wont be. again demand going down for fossil fuels will increase the price, demand going up for electricity will lower the price. there will be bumps along both paths no doubt, but the race is already fixed. electricity will never be the same price as fuel, and if somehow it is, which it cant, then you are still better off with an EV as you can cheaply produce your own electricity.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 23, 2022 14:20:19 GMT 10
Being an Electrical and Communications Engineer, the charging of EV's, bicycles, is something Ive had a think about. Whilst it is possible to charge yr EV from your home solar, there are several caveats. 1) If the grid fails, your PV array is off and cant be used unless.... 2) You need some battery's installed, but... 3) The battery capacity of an EV battery is much more than most house battery's,which are designed to overcome a few hours to a day of no grid, running a typical house loads, like fridges, lights etc. The house battery is usually less than 10 kwh, and mostly around 5 kwh, whereas an electric vehicle battery is greater than 20 kwh or so, some even approaching 30 or 40 kwh for the bigger vehicles. Yes, it will give a bit of charge in a grid down situation, especially if it occurs during the day and the sun is shining, and you have a big enough solar array to run the house, and charge your EV battery at the same time. Otherwise, its a phone-call to work to say you are having a no electric charging day off 'cause your EV is dead. I suppose I'm saying that the issue of charging hasn't been thought through particularly well, especially if there is a issue with the grid. That said, it is possible, for instance, our main system here consists of a 12 kw solar array, a 48 volt 2,500 amp hr battery bank, 5 kva inverter/charger and is totally stand alone. Thats a 120 kwh battery, more than enough to charge the EV battery several times over, even with no sun. Expensive, yes, $25 K just for the battery bank, but possible. Add a 12 kva water cooled, silenced diesel genset etc, and enough fuel to run it for several years, and you can do it. But it costs. Worth it ? Yes as the grid 20 years ago was over $220,000 to get it out here. Whats the future hold for EV's, and I'm specifically considering the charging situation. Plastering the car with solar cells is an option, but they need to be made more than the 20% or so efficiency that they are now. The sun can deliver at midday, around 1 kw per sq meter, so 5 sq meters at 100% efficiency could potentially charge your EV in a few hours full sun. There is some interesting technology using a double battery system, with a lower power density battery topping up the higher power running battery when stationary. Replaceable electrolyte battery's are also a tech that's been around for years, with the Vanadium re dox type battery's. I suspect that the power grid will need considerable re engineering to cope with the demands of EV's charging requirements, but given enough $ thrown at the problems, they will be solved. Maybe direct solar charging from dedicated arrays may be the future, especially with the modern power conversion electronic 'stuff' available now that was only science fiction a few short years ago. No grid needed during sunny days. Our Coles in town has a 200kw grid connected array on the roof of the car park, and that can charge an electric vehicle in a couple of hours, if it was wired to do so. Grid limitations as to how much power can be drawn for it will be an issue as well, so its possible that stand alone solar chargers will appear. And given that the solar arrays are DC and battery's need DC, the efficiency's involved will be quite high. Theres a reason that high power users are fed with power at 33,000 or even higher voltages, but that's impractical, and dangerous, for urban areas. And you can be sure that Goberment jerks will not stand by and let you charge yr EV from your own 'free' power, they will work out how to tax it.
Keyboard not found...press <F1> to continue.....
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Post by Stealth on Jul 23, 2022 15:30:18 GMT 10
And you can be sure that Goberment jerks will not stand by and let you charge yr EV from your own 'free' power, they will work out how to tax it. Keyboard not found...press <F1> to continue..... I'm actually surprised at the amount of free charge stations around me. It's shocking to me that they don't charge for it, given that it's something that has upkeep cost etc. Hopefully the solar array that we're getting installed on our new house will be enough to charge up my electric bike because it's very likely that I'm going to sell my car before we move. A second car is an additional expense that we really don't need once we're both working from home and the kids are walking distance from school. Selling it will mean that we'll be able to throw a heap of cash onto the mortgage but also potentially upgrade our solar battery from 5kw to 10kw.
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malewithatail
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Post by malewithatail on Jul 23, 2022 16:59:07 GMT 10
Yes, the future for cities....electric bikes/trikes. Easy to charge, simple technology, and ive seen some overseas in India or Ceylon, that have a small trailer behind towing a couple of kids, whilst mum and dad ride up front. 100 Km range is not hard, and 1 hour fast charging without killing the grid. For cities it may be an answer. I actually have most of the bits n pieces, and knowledge, to make an electric bike, so when time permits.......An electric quad bike is also on the drawing board..... I used to belong to the Sydney electric vehicle association over 20 years ago. I wonder if it still exists ? Just bear in mind that after the collapse, you wont be driving anywhere for a while as doing so will only make you a target. As society recovers, and farmers markets get up and running, an electric bike or trike will be invaluable for easy moving around in a non urban situation, as cities will be dead ends, probably run by gangs at gunpoint. Laddie, ya think ya might like ta.... rephrase that eh
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bug
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Post by bug on Jul 23, 2022 17:43:13 GMT 10
For the EV lovers here, NSW will introduce a tax of 2.5 cents per km travelled for all EV's from July 2027. Expect other States to follow suite. Hybrids will be charged 80% of the tax. Interesting. I would have thought that would be a federal government thing - to pay for road infrastructure like the fuel excise. On a side note, I'm tipping it won't be long before it is 10c per km. Which tells us straight away that this is a tax grab and nothing more. It's a very, very commonly believed myth that fuel excise goes to roads. It doesn't. It goes to federal general revenue. Not to roads and not to the states. So a state based EV tax is just the states trying to one-up each other. Eg: any state that taxes EVs still gets the benefits of the federal fuel excise plus the EV tax. Any state that doesn't tax EVs will end up subsidising the other states. It appears that this is the reason Albanese is supporting the (private) legal challenge to Victoria imposing the tax. In typical government style, Albanese's support hasn't gone far beyond words, but it's a very interesting attack on the authoritarian ALP's poster child, Daniel Andrews. thedriven.io/2022/07/18/albanese-government-backs-legal-challenge-to-victoria-ev-tax/
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bug
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Post by bug on Jul 23, 2022 17:44:48 GMT 10
And you can be sure that Goberment jerks will not stand by and let you charge yr EV from your own 'free' power, they will work out how to tax it. Keyboard not found...press <F1> to continue..... I'm actually surprised at the amount of free charge stations around me. It's shocking to me that they don't charge for it, given that it's something that has upkeep cost etc. Hopefully the solar array that we're getting installed on our new house will be enough to charge up my electric bike because it's very likely that I'm going to sell my car before we move. A second car is an additional expense that we really don't need once we're both working from home and the kids are walking distance from school. Selling it will mean that we'll be able to throw a heap of cash onto the mortgage but also potentially upgrade our solar battery from 5kw to 10kw. Me too. If I had an EV I'd park my car at one, charge it, then go home, plug it in and turn off the mains supply to my house. Viola! Free electricity. I'd be floored if some people aren't already doing this.
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bug
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Post by bug on Jul 23, 2022 17:52:14 GMT 10
Being an Electrical and Communications Engineer, the charging of EV's, bicycles, is something Ive had a think about. Whilst it is possible to charge yr EV from your home solar, there are several caveats. 1) If the grid fails, your PV array is off and cant be used unless.... 2) You need some battery's installed, but... 3) The battery capacity of an EV battery is much more than most house battery's,which are designed to overcome a few hours to a day of no grid, running a typical house loads, like fridges, lights etc. The house battery is usually less than 10 kwh, and mostly around 5 kwh, whereas an electric vehicle battery is greater than 20 kwh or so, some even approaching 30 or 40 kwh for the bigger vehicles. Yes, it will give a bit of charge in a grid down situation, especially if it occurs during the day and the sun is shining, and you have a big enough solar array to run the house, and charge your EV battery at the same time. Otherwise, its a phone-call to work to say you are having a no electric charging day off 'cause your EV is dead. I suppose I'm saying that the issue of charging hasn't been thought through particularly well, especially if there is a issue with the grid. Keyboard not found...press <F1> to continue..... Mate are you sure about that? Japan has always had a few EVs getting around since they have no oil reserves and are shitscared of the CCP cutting off shipping lanes to them. The numbers recently have shot right up. They know how to do it too. They put chargers on regular parking spots, not at petrol stations. You charge while you shop, because who in their right mind is going to want to sit at a servo for half an hour. Some people there already use EVs as large home batteries, which makes sense due to how disaster prone the place is. A 2 day supply from a home battery doesn't won't cut it. A 2 week long supply from a fully charged EV usually will cover them. freedomforever.com/blog/ev-power-a-home/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20an%20EV%20if%20properly%20equipped%20can%20provide,come%20with%20up%20to%20a%20100-kilowatt-hour%20battery%20pack.
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dadbod
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Post by dadbod on Jul 23, 2022 20:08:33 GMT 10
from a prepping point of view; solar, battery, and EV makes a lot of sense to me. you become less reliant on the system. I get that right now ICE is a better option, but the day is coming when EV is the better options.
There are a lot of issues with EV like infrastructure and resources, but we seem to forget the issues with fossil fuels, like massive logistic chains, refining processes, price variability, international issues, pollution, health impacts...
on another note, I am designing my own battery system for my home, I am thinking of a modular system that stacks and can be put into unused housing spots like voids, roof cavities, or even on the roof. Its interesting doing the research. I currently have a powerwall 2, but find the footprint in the garage to be quite annoying.
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